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Is it legal to choose to fail even when free benefits would cover the cost of success?

Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points12 posts
64x64
Posted
#1
Consider this case:

One of Lovecraft's skill cards gives him (:card_blue: :icon_succes: :icon_succes_7:) on all Think Actions. That card is in effect as long as he has the card in hand, and the card is not worded in a way which makes it sound optional (it does not use the word "may"). Another one of his skills allows him to take a Think Action, spending/achieving (:card_blue: :icon_succes:) to succeed at that action.

May Lovecraft choose to fail at the second skill even if he has the first one in hand?
64x64
Posted
#2
"May" is writed in the rulebook. ;-)
"Page 12, 3.Result wrote:
Each player involved in the action may apply the effects of
one or more cards from their hand

So, yes you can choose to fail the action by no using your skill card.
resource_fire Firebird resource_fire (ma ludothèque)
T7Continent : icon_succes DV, OG, LG --- icon_curse SI, [CD+SI] --- icon_success-left Histoire, Pénitence, Funéraille --- card_type_temporary_event [SI+TS]
T7Citadel : card_type_temporary_event
64x64
Posted
#3
The wording on the card is:

"The following effect applies as long as you have this in hand"

Since cards override the rulebook, it's not clear whether usage of such a card is truly optional ("may") or required.
64x64
Posted - Edited
#4
Valid argument.
I ask Bruno to check this question (but he's at the GenCon today ^^).
resource_fire Firebird resource_fire (ma ludothèque)
T7Continent : icon_succes DV, OG, LG --- icon_curse SI, [CD+SI] --- icon_success-left Histoire, Pénitence, Funéraille --- card_type_temporary_event [SI+TS]
T7Citadel : card_type_temporary_event
64x64
Posted
#5
Can I ask why you'd want to fail an action? Just curious, I haven't used Frankenstein so I'm not familiar with how his skills work. :)
64x64
Posted
#6
Ren3 wrote:
Can I ask why you'd want to fail an action? Just curious, I haven't used Frankenstein so I'm not familiar with how his skills work. :)

Lovecraft =/= Frankenstein:pinch:

I think you can choose to apply or not all effects from your hand ... So you can choose to do not apply them.
7/12 :flag_curse_sm: reste : WGUMCD(\VT\CC)+DV+TS
7 :icon_curse:(2 DV-1 SI-1 CD-1 OG-1 PV-1 PN) 101h :action_think:
Armaggedon en cours ! :w00t::sandglass:
64x64
Posted
#7
Ren3 wrote:
Can I ask why you'd want to fail an action? Just curious, I haven't used Frankenstein so I'm not familiar with how his skills work. :)

In this particular case, failing means you gain an XP and success lets you spend your XPs. Thus success and failure are valuable at different times.

ImDarKK wrote:
I think you can choose to apply or not all effects from your hand ... So you can choose to do not apply them.

That's the real question: this skill (quoted above) is worded such that it's not optional, and cards trump the rulebook (which claims that playing skill cards is optional). We'll have to wait on Bruno for the official answer, but he's off at GenCon.
64x64
Posted
#8
sgbeal wrote:
Ren3 wrote:
Can I ask why you'd want to fail an action? Just curious, I haven't used Frankenstein so I'm not familiar with how his skills work. :)

In this particular case, failing means you gain an XP and success lets you spend your XPs. Thus success and failure are valuable at different times.

Thanks! That makes sense. I did run into another example today -- an action where you have to draw a lot of cards and if you get at least one star you get a negative status, if you fail nothing happens.

I also had one of Keelan's "as long as this card is in your hand..." skills which is similar because it says "-1 :card_blue: AND/OR :icon_succes:". So I used the -1 :card_blue: and it worked well because it lessened my chances of success. Because of the AND/OR (which I believe is also on Lovecraft's card), I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to use the skill, unless I was trying to cycle through the deck, but I can't think of why I'd be doing that. Though it would be good to get an official answer on this.
64x64
Posted
#9
Ping. A reminder to Firebird to please ask Bruno whether effects provided by cards which say "The following effect applies as long as you have this in hand" are voluntary or mandatory.

There's an FAQ entry for this thread's main question now, but it doesn't address that specific corner case.
64x64
Posted
#10
Ping statistics for BrunoS : Packets : Sent = a lot, Receive = a few, Lost = none but KS2 in approch !
;-)

There are several topics about rules that Bruno have to check, but it seems he has just enough time to valid/invalid the errors. I should write him a summary of the requests to save him time, but I have quite limited time myself. We'll work on it!
resource_fire Firebird resource_fire (ma ludothèque)
T7Continent : icon_succes DV, OG, LG --- icon_curse SI, [CD+SI] --- icon_success-left Histoire, Pénitence, Funéraille --- card_type_temporary_event [SI+TS]
T7Citadel : card_type_temporary_event
64x64
Posted
#11
Firebird wrote:
Ping statistics for BrunoS : Packets : Sent = a lot, Receive = a few, Lost = none but KS2 in approch !
;-)


Great answer :).
64x64
Posted
#12
sgbeal wrote:
Ping. A reminder to Firebird to please ask Bruno whether effects provided by cards which say "The following effect applies as long as you have this in hand" are voluntary or mandatory.

There's an FAQ entry for this thread's main question now, but it doesn't address that specific corner case.


Hi,

Sorry for the delay. Literally hundreds of emails to answer everyday.

You can choose not to use Lovecraft's Skill. Therefore sentence should read: "You may apply the following effect as long as you have this in hand".
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points12 posts
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